Question about SID

General discussion about chipsounds

Question about SID

Postby deadca7 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:34 am

Hello :)
I bought the chipsound yesterday, even though I'm quite new to the synth scene. Only been using Ableton Live for 8 months.
So I'm wondering if there is anyway I can get the SIDchip in chipsound to sound like a chip in a SID file.

I got this Comic_Bakery.sid, and used siddump on it. It prints data out like this
Code: Select all
Load address: $7F00 Init address: $7F00 Play address: $7F03
Calling initroutine with subtune 0
Calling playroutine for 3000 frames, starting from frame 0
Middle C frequency is $1168

| Frame | Freq Note/Abs WF ADSR Pul | Freq Note/Abs WF ADSR Pul | Freq Note/Abs WF ADSR Pul | FCut RC Typ V |
+-------+---------------------------+---------------------------+---------------------------+---------------+
|   384 | 194D (F#4 B6) .. .... 9E0 | 19B1  G-4 B7  21 0487 800 | 066C  G-2 9F  41 13C9 600 | .... .. ... . |
|   385 | 191B (- 0032) .. .... 9C2 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | .... .. ... . |
|   386 | 194D (+ 0032) .. .... 9A4 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... 61E | .... .. ... . |
|   387 | 197F (G-4 B7) .. .... 986 | ....  ... ..  20 .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... 63C | .... .. ... . |
|   388 | 19B1 (+ 0032) .. .... 968 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... 65A | .... .. ... . |
|   389 | 19E3 (+ 0032) .. .... 94A | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... 678 | .... .. ... . |
|   390 | 1A15 (+ 0032) .. .... 92C | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | 0666 (- 0006) .. .... 696 | .... .. ... . |
|   391 | 1A47 (+ 0032) .. .... 90E | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | 0660 (- 0006) .. .... 6B4 | .... .. ... . |
|   392 | 1A15 (- 0032) .. .... 8F0 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | 065A (- 0006) .. .... 6D2 | .... .. ... . |
|   393 | 19E3 (- 0032) .. .... 8D2 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | 0654 (F#2 9E) .. .... 6F0 | .... .. ... . |
|   394 | 19B1 (- 0032) .. .... 8B4 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | 064E (- 0006) .. .... 70E | .... .. ... . |
|   395 | 197F (- 0032) .. .... 896 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | 0648 (- 0006) 40 .... 72C | .... .. ... . |
|   396 | 194D (F#4 B6) .. .... 878 | 3361  G-5 C3  21 .... ... | 066C  G-2 9F  41 1389 600 | .... .. ... . |
|   397 | 191B (- 0032) .. .... 85A | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | .... .. ... . |
|   398 | 194D (+ 0032) .. .... 83C | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... 61E | .... .. ... . |
|   399 | 197F (G-4 B7) .. .... 81E | ....  ... ..  20 .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... 63C | .... .. ... . |
|   400 | 19B1 (+ 0032) .. .... 800 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... 65A | .... .. ... . |
|   401 | 19E3 (+ 0032) .. .... 81E | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  40 .... 678 | .... .. ... . |
|   402 | 1A15 (+ 0032) .. .... 83C | 3361  G-5 C3  21 .... ... | 066C  G-2 9F  41 .... 600 | .... .. ... . |
|   403 | 1A47 (+ 0032) .. .... 85A | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | .... .. ... . |
|   404 | 1A15 (- 0032) .. .... 878 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... 61E | .... .. ... . |
|   405 | 19E3 (- 0032) .. .... 896 | ....  ... ..  20 .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... 63C | .... .. ... . |
|   406 | 19B1 (- 0032) .. .... 8B4 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  .. .... 65A | .... .. ... . |
|   407 | 197F (- 0032) .. .... 8D2 | ....  ... ..  .. .... ... | ....  ... ..  40 .... 678 | .... .. ... . |
|   408 | 194D (F#4 B6) .. .... 8F0 | 19B1  G-4 B7  21 .... ... | 0B72  F-3 A9  41 13C9 600 | .... .. ... . |


I also ran the sid file through another program and got some different results like this.
Code: Select all
PW = pulse width (0-4095)
WF = waveform (xy : 1?=triangle, 2?=sawtooth, 4?=pulse, 8?=noise)
    (?2=synchronization, ?4=ring modulation, ?6=sync+ringmod)
VL = volume level (0-FF)

Filter type: L = low-pass, B = band-pass, H = high-pass
Filter voices: 1__ = filter on voice 1, _2_ = voice 2, __3 = voice 3, and so on
Filter cut-off frequency (SID value, 0-7F0)
Filter resonance (SID value, 0-F)

Time format: minute:second.hundredth

          Voice 1                     Voice 2                     Voice 3
Time      Note  Freq  PW  WF ADSR VL  Note  Freq  PW  WF ADSR VL  Note  Freq  PW  WF ADSR VL  Filter
============================================================================================================
00:07.68   ---   380 2528 40 0000 00  >G-4<  386 2048 20 0000 ff  >G-2<   96 1536 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.70   ---   377 2498 40 0000 00   +++   386 2048 20 0487 ff   +++    96 1536 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.72   ---   380 2468 40 0000 00   +++   386 2048 20 0487 ff   +++    96 1566 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.74   ---   383 2438 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++    96 1596 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.76   ---   386 2408 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++    96 1626 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.78   ---   389 2378 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++    96 1656 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.80   ---   392 2348 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++    96 1686 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.82   ---   395 2318 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++    95 1716 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.84   ---   392 2288 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++    95 1746 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.86   ---   389 2258 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++    95 1776 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.88   ---   386 2228 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++    94 1806 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.90   ---   383 2198 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   ---    94 1836 40 13c9 00  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.92   ---   380 2168 40 0000 00  >G-5<  772 2048 20 0487 ff  >G-2<   96 1536 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.94   ---   377 2138 40 0000 00   +++   772 2048 20 0487 ff   +++    96 1536 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.96   ---   380 2108 40 0000 00   +++   772 2048 20 0487 ff   +++    96 1566 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:07.98   ---   383 2078 40 0000 00   ---   772 2048 20 0487 00   +++    96 1596 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.00   ---   386 2048 40 0000 00   ---   772 2048 20 0487 00   +++    96 1626 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.02   ---   389 2078 40 0000 00   ---   772 2048 20 0487 00   ---    96 1656 40 1389 00  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.04   ---   392 2108 40 0000 00  >G-5<  772 2048 20 0487 ff  >G-2<   96 1536 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.06   ---   395 2138 40 0000 00   +++   772 2048 20 0487 ff   +++    96 1536 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.08   ---   392 2168 40 0000 00   +++   772 2048 20 0487 ff   +++    96 1566 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.10   ---   389 2198 40 0000 00   ---   772 2048 20 0487 00   +++    96 1596 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.12   ---   386 2228 40 0000 00   ---   772 2048 20 0487 00   +++    96 1626 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.14   ---   383 2258 40 0000 00   ---   772 2048 20 0487 00   ---    96 1656 40 1389 00  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.16   ---   380 2288 40 0000 00  >G-4<  386 2048 20 0487 ff  >F-3<  172 1536 40 1389 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.18   ---   377 2318 40 0000 00   +++   386 2048 20 0487 ff   +++   172 1536 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.20   ---   380 2348 40 0000 00   +++   386 2048 20 0487 ff   +++   172 1566 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.22   ---   383 2378 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++   172 1596 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.24   ---   386 2408 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++   172 1626 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.26   ---   389 2438 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   ---   172 1656 40 13c9 00  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.28   ---   392 2468 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00  >G-3<  193 1536 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.30   ---   395 2498 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++   193 1536 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.32   ---   392 2528 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++   193 1566 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.34   ---   389 2558 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++   193 1596 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.36   ---   386 2588 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   +++   193 1626 40 13c9 ff  ___ ___   0 0
00:08.38   ---   383 2618 40 0000 00   ---   386 2048 20 0487 00   ---   193 1656 40 13c9 00  ___ ___   0 0


Is there anyway I can use this info, to make the sound identical in chipsound ?

EDIT: I found something HERE http://www.ucapps.de/howto_sid_wavetables_1.html, but I think that is some hardware synth.

Thanks
deadca7
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:15 am

Re: Question about SID

Postby davidv » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:55 pm

hi

I'm using my own custom tools to extract the data from sid files and making wavetables. Its not by any means
an easy process, and the tools are not really tested for outside use yet.

Is Comic_Bakery.sid the only sid you need?
Cause i could convert a few of them in MIDI that chipsounds "eats" but the conversion
is far from perfect currently

That MIDIBox link is good for MIDIBox SID, but the principles apply to chip sounds too.
looking at waveforms is often the best tool there is.

You can render SID files with separate channels in stuff like http://www.dreamfabric.com/c64/jsidplay/
David Viens,
Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
http://www.plogue.com
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Re: Question about SID

Postby deadca7 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:40 pm

Would be awesome if that tool became public one day.

There are so many songs I wanna steal the synths from, but the ones that come first in mind are
Code: Select all
Comic Bakery Track 1
Commando Track 1
Ghosts n Goblins Track 2
Great Giana Sisters Track 5
R-Type Track 1
Lazy Jones Track 3


Would be nice if you could rip those when you get time (Hope its not too many) :)

EDIT: I can't download anything that you post on the forum, I only get this "Hidden text. None of the groups you are a member of have been granted access.".
deadca7
 
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Re: Question about SID

Postby davidv » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:37 am

deadca7 wrote:EDIT: I can't download anything that you post on the forum, I only get this "Hidden text. None of the groups you are a member of have been granted access.".


Hum, did you try recently? we've messed with those yesterday, when trying to see them "as you" we do see the links now.

As far as the SIDs, comic bakery first?

http://plogue.com/davidv/CS/cs_bakery_solo.mp3

Conversion is not 100% as you can see, but its enough to see how the track was originally done

chipsounds files (require v1.002):



You need to load the ariax file into chipsounds
1)requires using 48 cent pitch bend range,
2)andseparate channels 1,2,3

Two sets of files are included, the separate tracks and the "merged" tracks.
For instance, you would use c64_comic_bakery.vgmx.mid into the standalone player

If you use this in a track, please respect mr Galway with some credits ;)
David Viens,
Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
http://www.plogue.com
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Re: Question about SID

Postby deadca7 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:02 am

I still get the "Hidden text. None of the groups you are a member of have been granted access.", so I cant download yet :(

Thanks for the hard work man, hope you can fix the download issues so I can try it out :)
deadca7
 
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Re: Question about SID

Postby deadca7 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:46 pm

Now I can see the links, but the file is not on the server :p
Code: Select all
Not Found
The requested URL /xxx/xxx/xxx.zip was not found on this server.
deadca7
 
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Re: Question about SID

Postby davidv » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:54 pm

OK.

sorry about all that. please retry the hidden link
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Re: Question about SID

Postby deadca7 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:34 pm

Thanks man, been looking at the midis. Didn't know that the pitch bend had that much to do with the song.
Got two new nub question for you though, how do you set the 48 cent pitch bend range and set the separate channels 1,2,3 ? When I load the ariax file the midis only use the 1st channel.
deadca7
 
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Re: Question about SID

Postby davidv » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:09 pm

Pitch bend is everything.

4 midi files

first 3 are for the separate channels 1,2,3
and fourth one plays all the notes and sends them to the 3 channels.

Just easier to edit if they are in different files.
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