Sub-group modes are forgotten

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pond
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:38 pm

Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby pond » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:14 pm

hello,
i was unsure whether to post in bugs or feature request for this particular issue, but feel free to move the post if necessary

i often have groups within groups, some of which are either bypassed or muted in the layout's default state.
If i mute the parent group, and later set it to processing - all subgroups are set to processing which is often not what is desired.

would it be possible to change this behaviour so that the sub-group modes are recalled?

dts350z
Posts: 1521
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:18 pm

Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby dts350z » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:31 pm

You can make controls at the group level that control the sub groups, that way, when the group starts processing the sub groups will be forced into the appropriate mode.

One way to do it would be to put (at the group level) an integer variable min 0 max 2 and link it to the processing mode of the sub group. Make three presets in the integer variable, and name them Processing, Mute, and Bypass, set them to values 0, 1, and 2 as appropriate.

Now add the "Preset Number" parameter of the integer variable as a group parameter and set the GUI type to "Choice".

In your group controls, you will now have a pull down for the sub group that says Processing, Mute, Bypass.

Of course there are lots of other ways to do this, using discrete or audio logic and parameter mods, but the above is the basic way to give a manual control that will be "remembered" as the group processing mode changes.

dts350z
Posts: 1521
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:18 pm

Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby dts350z » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:40 pm

Actually I just tested that it doesn't work. Stand by...

dts350z
Posts: 1521
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Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby dts350z » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:47 pm

OK, looking at some of my layouts I have used used control logic --> delay line --> PM line to processing mode of sub group.

with some smallish number of samples on the delay line. Let me make an example...

dts350z
Posts: 1521
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:18 pm

Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby dts350z » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:19 pm

Nope, I'm stuck too. Taking a closer look at my layouts the control logic has to be above the group that is getting muted.

Seems to me what is needed is an additional trigger type that triggers on the mode change of it's group, as apposed to the global start of processing.

dts350z
Posts: 1521
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:18 pm

Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby dts350z » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:29 pm

OK this works.

I used a triggered PM and drove the trigger with a clock so it is constantly being re-triggered.

When the top group starts processing, the PM gets triggered, sending the correct mode value to the sub group mode.
Attachments
Sub Group Mode.bidule
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pond
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:38 pm

Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby pond » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:22 pm

hello dts350z
thanks for your effort! i appreciate you taking the time

this will get me by for now, although i would love to see this happen by default someday

@seb: is it likely that you would change this at some stage? or is there a reason why subgroup modes should not be recalled

thanks again
phillip

seb@plogue
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Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby seb@plogue » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:32 am

@seb: is it likely that you would change this at some stage? or is there a reason why subgroup modes should not be recalled


That would require a FR. There are two reasons for the current behaviour: one is that any terminals in subgroups would still
process if the mode wasn't propagated, the other is that at some point (this would require some re-testing to see if this still applies or not) there were cases where depending on the bidules contained in a subgroup not having the mode propagated would create burst of sound (I don't recall if it was a tail or actual noise) upon coming back to processing.

pond
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:38 pm

Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby pond » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:15 pm

hello Seb,

It is only when setting the parent group to processing that propagation is not desirable.
If the parent group is set to mute or bypass, then sub-groups should also be muted or bypassed.
But when the parent group is set back to processing, the sub-groups should remember their previous mode if possible.

For example, I have an amplitude modulation bidule. There are oscillator groups which multiply the input signal.
In each oscillator there is a sub-group that will turn on "stepping" ie. Round(input*steps)/steps. This group is bypassed by default.
If I mute an oscillator (with no stepping activated), when it is not needed to save cpu, then set it to processing again, the stepping group is also set to processing - which is not desired.
This is just one example.

Do you think it is appropriate for me to make a FR?

thanks
Phillip

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Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby seb@plogue » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:51 am

I understand how it could be useful. In the meantime have you tried using group presets? On a preset change the setting of parameter values are made sequentially so you can set up the group to have the relevant subgroups mode as parameters and then save presets with the correct group mode and subgroup modes. What will happen is that the group mode will be set first (and propagated) then the group parameters (the subgroups modes) will be set. That could work depending on what your subgroups are doing.

pond
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:38 pm

Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby pond » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:29 pm

Thankyou, i was not aware of this. It will be really useful in certain situations.

Have a great day
Phillip

boonier
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Location: Brighton, UK

Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby boonier » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:34 pm

Stumbled upon this today- Unexpected behaviour. Has this been left as is?

seb@plogue
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Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby seb@plogue » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:51 am

Has this been left as is?


Hasn't changed, there were cases where not setting the subgroups processing mode to follow the parent's mode would generate bursts of noise. I would need to figure out where they come from exactly and if there's any way to make sure it can't happen no matter the group contents.

NTO
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:54 am

Re: Sub-group modes are forgotten

Postby NTO » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:54 am

seb@plogue wrote:...setting the subgroups processing mode to follow the parent's mode...

Another NOOB thing! Excited to see this thinking it might help w/problem I have. Where is this setting? (tree looked in properties and parameters)


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