Glitchy sound when using MP assign

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tomtakestooth
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Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby tomtakestooth » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:35 am

On my windows laptop, when assigning a vst to MP1, the sound gets really glitchy and choppy. Strangely, I tried it on a mac, and there's no problem whatsoever.

I've checked it with only 1 vst (Reaktor) running directly into the audio output. Nothing else in the chain whatsoever. When setting it back to the original core (and restarting bidule) everything is fine.

I've seen a few posts about problems with MP assign. Is there a workaround for this, or does it mean I'm unable to use more than one core in Windows?

seb@plogue
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby seb@plogue » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:21 am

MP Assign really works better when you assign things so that the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc... % of dsp are lower than the first one.

In your description, you end up with the assign work being higher than the "main" (the first % of dsp) work.

tomtakestooth
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby tomtakestooth » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:03 am

Hi Seb

Thanks for that. Doing a quick test, it definitely seems to work better when MP1 is running on less CPU than the original core. I am still getting occasional clicks and pops, even when I've got latency set to maximum on my MOTU Ultralite MK3. So unfortunately it's still not good enough for live performance.

Are there any recommended BIOS settings for the CPU when using Bidule? Such as having hyperthreading turned on or off, intel's turbo boost, etc.

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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby seb@plogue » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:46 am

Have you checked the other MP assign threads about the "diamond shape" case, the fact that everything connected upwards also automatically gets MP assigned, etc... ?

tomtakestooth
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby tomtakestooth » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:39 am

Looking into this again (almost a year later)...
I've had all kinds of issues with that MOTU card, so back to using my Focusrite Scarlett.
I'm starting to hit a limit in my bidule setup so would love to be able to get MP assign to work.

Looking at this screenshot, is there any reason why I should still be hearing glitches?
Everything in green is assigned to MP1 - Blue is unassigned.
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seb@plogue
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby seb@plogue » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:51 am

Everything in green is assigned to MP1 - Blue is unassigned.


You don't mean you have individually assigned all these to MP1, right?

- You should only MP Assign VOX meter, the rest will automatically be.
- It would be better to duplicate Mic Mute (so that its output doesn't go to both the green and blue side)
you can use parameter linking to make sure the two are in sync.

tomtakestooth
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby tomtakestooth » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:20 am

Ah ok, I was under the assumption that I would need to do it for each one. I'll give that a try and replicate the mic mute and report back.

Thanks Seb

tomtakestooth
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby tomtakestooth » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:40 pm

Got around to trying this today, and unfortunately it made no difference.
I also tried to make a much simpler example (see image). Only the mixer in green is assigned to MP1.
I've tried this in both 32 bit and 64 bit version of bidule, and tried with a few different plugins to see if Reaktor was causing the problem.
Also, I set the latency on the Focusrite to the highest setting, and it still crackles and glitches. Assigning the green mixer back to MP0 causes everything to run smoothly again.

This is such a shame, as I rely on Bidule as my vst host for live performance, but am hitting an overload on just the one core...
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dts350z
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby dts350z » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:37 pm

Besides MP assign, another approach would be to use multiple instances of PB.

I don't claim to be the expert at this, but I did test with windows MME output devices in two instances and both sounds came out the same channels (or you could send to different outputs in each PB instance and mix in your Focusrite).

That won't work with WASAPI or ASIO drivers because they want exclusive use of the device in each app, but if you can get away with performing with MME or DS drivers (non duplex) that is one approach.

Routing midi between PB instances can be done with rewire or software midi cables, etc.

I'd also check as to the multicpu capabilities of Reaktor 6. Hmm, sadly, googling says no (but yes for kontakt)?

reezekeys
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby reezekeys » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:15 pm

This is always gonna be a mystery I'm afraid. I have done the multi-Bidule approach (one Bidule all on core 0 and another on core 1) with some success but I suspect that individual plugins have their own MP schemes and that may be interfering with how Bidule's threads are processed. Kontakt can be set to use multiple cores or not, and I have experimented both ways with no definite success. That probably means it's one of my other plugins causing the glitching, if not my layout.

I'm trying something different now - running two Bidules, one almost all on core 0 doing midi routing & processing only, then using multiple Bidule midi ports to send to the other Bidule, which has a bunch of plugins, trying to spread the load among all four cores of my i7. No real joy – it can work fine for a few days, then I'll suddenly hear glitching for a few seconds. I try to maintain the "diamond" configuration to avoid having the same bidules process from more than one stream, but that's not 100% possible so I've been experimenting by moving stuff around and changing MP assign on some things. I'm almost ready to give up and just keep everything on core 0.

URM
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby URM » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:17 pm

Seems I'm one of the lucky ones who's had success running very stable glitch free mp assigned bidules on both my Win tablet (i5 2 cores) and laptop (i7 4 cores.) Took a lot of head scratching and experimenting in the early days before I figured out a system that's been works pretty flawlessly on my machines for few years now.

Basically I have mixers assigned per core at the bottom of my layout and each mixer has it's own dedicated set of synth and effect groups connected above so no audio interconnecting core/thread diamonds above. The mixers only connect below to the audio interface and an audio recorder.

No problem parameter linking midi or stuff between a group on one core to groups on the other cores, audio coming into the audio interface can go into any or all of the core mixers.

I also used to follow Seb's rule of loading up MP0 first and then moving onto the other MPs, but core hierarchy is no longer a problem here either as no glitches occur if MP0 is lower than the others. The current piece I'm working on starts out with DSP showing about 17% 29% 17% 36%, when the sequences start running it goes up to 17% 42%, 38% 40% with no glitches or CPU overloads. I tend to have a palette of synths on MP0 to play live that I can turn on and off and layer which brings MP0 up from its 17% to about 50% while the sequences are playing on the other cores. Similar results on my tablet, MP0 at 15% and MP1 at 50% results in no glitches.

I tend to turn off the multicore switches in the UHE synths as turning them on seems to cause issues like Reesekeys mentions. Mostly because it seems like they use more CPU overall across all cores when the multicore switch is on in the synth. I also use a lot of jbridged 32 bit vsts which likely skewer the bidule DSP readings, but the only time I get any audio problems like glitches or clicks is when Bidule shows a CPU Overload message.

Hope this helps and others find success with MP assignment.

Edit: Should also mention that I'm running an RME and Komplete Audio 6 which have decent drivers. Tom's simple layout above looks like it should work so maybe it's the Focusrite drivers. I had issues recently with one of the big multi in and out Focusrite firewire devices that I was configuring for an art installation. Had to set latency to it's highest so that it would playback one audio track glitch free from Reaper on a Mac Pro. On windows, I've read on KVR that Focusrite support recommends using ASIO4All instead of their drivers to people having issues.

dts350z
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby dts350z » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:34 pm

Another thing to consider is processor clock speed when you go to refresh your hardware.

Knowing that a lot of these music tools are not great at multicore, you could try to pick hardware with a faster, fewer core, cpu than slower one with more cores.

Probably harder to do in a laptop but certainly in a desktop you can pick "workstation" class CPUs or even gamer CPUs with unlocked multipliers (for overclocking).

These might not always be the current generation, as with each generation Intel seems to favor cores over clockspeed (yes a huge inaccurate generalization but still you can see examples). http://ark.intel.com and http://www.cpu-world.com/ are your friends for selecting CPUs.

Hmmm... Maybe we need a PB benchmark ;0)

tomtakestooth
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby tomtakestooth » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:43 pm

Yeah i get the point about clock speed. Unfortunately a new laptop isn't gonna happen anytime soon.
Unfortunately I think I'm going to have to ditch Bidule and replace it with Reaper. I seem to be able to squeeze a lot more power out of it than Bidule.

tomtakestooth
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Re: Glitchy sound when using MP assign

Postby tomtakestooth » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:19 am

Managed to get hold of a MacBook Pro, and hey! no issues with MP assign at all. In fact, even though it's not really a more powerful laptop than my Lenovo, Bidule just seems to run smoother and better on a Mac. Should have done this ages ago!


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