Pan on CC with mono samples

Discussion on the SFZ implementation and opcodes available in the ARIA engine.

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pljones
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:05 pm

Pan on CC with mono samples

Postby pljones » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:19 am

Hi,

I've got a set of drum samples that were mixed to mono. Dropping one sample into Sforzando with no SFZ mapping and looking at the output, it's centred perfectly. The Pan control pans the sample so that at 100% L, the L channel is +3dB from centred and the R channel is silent - and conversely for 100% R.

The same effect is observed for the trivial case of an SFZ file like:

Code: Select all

<region> sample=../Wav/CLudwigKick-Dyn12.wav

Adding

Code: Select all

<global> pan=-100 pan_oncc10=200

Also isn't directly a problem.

However... once you try to initialise the CC value with set_cc10={some value half way between 0 and 127 like 63.5}, you find it's very hard to actually find the "centred" point.

Code: Select all

<control> set_cc10=63.5 label_cc10=PAN (CC10)
<global> pan=-100 pan_oncc10=200
<region> sample=../Wav/CLudwigKick-Dyn12.wav

I don't seem to be able to find a "better" half way point but it's still not giving an equal L and R signal. (Even dropping down to pan=-4 pan_oncc10=8 gets the non-centred effect at CC10=63.5.)

Any hints on tuning this?

kinwie
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Pan on CC with mono samples

Postby kinwie » Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:17 am

Yeah, that's why I prefer using _onhdcc# rather than _oncc#
So far I always set pan_onhdcc# to 0.5 and let sforzando define it's most centered value
Yes, I'm aware that center value when using midi cc probably between 63 - 64.
But I possibly could be wrong and only our dev can give the exact math explanation, :D

You really go into very detail, Jones! (y)

pljones
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:05 pm

Re: Pan on CC with mono samples

Postby pljones » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:09 am

kinwie wrote:Yeah, that's why I prefer using _onhdcc# rather than _oncc#
Hm, can't find anything on Google about using these. Is there a page or a thread where they're explained? Thanks! :)

kinwie
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Pan on CC with mono samples

Postby kinwie » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:07 am

Haha, I can't find it either in google LOL
Sorry, low batt on my brain LOL

What I mean is I always use set_hdcc#=0.5
Rather than set_cc#=63

pljones
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:05 pm

Re: Pan on CC with mono samples

Postby pljones » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:16 am

So rather than MIDI 0 to 127, you use float 0 to 1? Only for "set_hdcc" - no equivalents for _oncc.

I'm also after something that combines nicely - so I can have an overall pan (CC10) and then position instruments within the overall field separately. The pan opcode doesn't really support that.

kinwie
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Pan on CC with mono samples

Postby kinwie » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:27 pm

pljones wrote:So rather than MIDI 0 to 127, you use float 0 to 1? Only for "set_hdcc" - no equivalents for _oncc.

I'm also after something that combines nicely - so I can have an overall pan (CC10) and then position instruments within the overall field separately. The pan opcode doesn't really support that.


Yes, mostly I use set_hdcc 0 to 1. It easier for me to convert value of parameters when need to be define as default load value.
For example (with the default curve 0, Linear 0 to 1) :
- setting ampeg_release_onccX=10
- set_hdccX=0.1 > the default load value should be 1 second (10%)

I could be wrong but so far it works for me.

davidv
Site Admin
Posts: 1567
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:23 pm
Contact:

Re: Pan on CC with mono samples

Postby davidv » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:05 am

All internal parameter modulation in ARIA is done in float and the input MIDI is converted from [0:127] to [0.f : 1.f] as soon as it enters the engine,
so yeah set_hdcc is an early HDMIDI implementation (even though the spec aint finalized yet, or might never be).

"_oncc" since it defines scaling towards a parameter, doesnt need an HD counterpart.

HD MIDI also allows to define parameters outside of [0;127]/[0.f : 1.f] which, while cannot be used for MIDI input, can be used with our UIs or host parameter automation in AU, VST3 and AAX.

The only shortcoming of using HD MIDI is that you cannot mix and match a "hdcc" with the <curve> definitions as those are of course indexed from MIDI.

None of this is official SFZ 2.0 spec in any case, but IMHO should be part of 3.0, if it ever happens.
David Viens,
Plogue Art et Technologie Inc. Montreal.
http://www.plogue.com

kinwie
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:53 pm

Re: Pan on CC with mono samples

Postby kinwie » Wed May 17, 2017 6:23 am

Give a little test to this with a mono sample,
And using set_hdcc#=0.5 resulting equal L-R balance.

Then I try to move that pan CC, then I Ctrl-click it to reset to center (50%), it just fine.
Both Left and Right peak level is the same.


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