Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

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DavidinTexas
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:11 pm

Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

Postby DavidinTexas » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:30 pm

New to the forum and will appreciate any help that might be given.

I’ve tried many things and am still having an issue and am quite puzzled by it.

In the course of my efforts, I’ve discovered that with the ARIA Player, with either GPO or World Instruments, the same issue occurs regardless of the controller.

The issue being that in the ARIA Controls Window, when I move any of the controllers

- Mod Wheel on Alesis Q25,
- Mod “stick” on the Roland A-500S,
- Roland EV-5 Expression Pedal connected to the A-500S or the
- TEControl MIDI USB Breath Controller

the ModWhl (CC1) in the ARIA Controllers Window goes to 100% and then to 0%, but the instruments (I’ve tried many different ones) still sound when I play a key on the keyboard.
All these controllers will cause the volume to increase (I can see that in the Controls Window as well as hear it), but none of them will completely mute the sound.
The instrument sound is soft but definitely audible.
The same level is heard when recorded onto a track.

I have tried starting the recording and then moving all four of the controllers individually from 0% to 100% and then back to 0% before starting to play (as suggested in the manuals) and the same thing happens.

With Dimension Pro, Rapture, and the bass and strings plug-ins that come with Sonar X3 Pro the issue does not occur. The sounds are completely muted when any of the controllers is set to 0%.

I’ve tried settings for CC1, CC2, CC7 and CC11 with no change.

Could this be something that is inherent in the design of the ARIA Player or is there yet some setting of which I am unaware?

DavidinTexas

seb@plogue
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Re: Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

Postby seb@plogue » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:02 pm

Could this be something that is inherent in the design of the ARIA Player or is there yet some setting of which I am unaware?


It's specific to the programming of some of the Garritan instruments, CC1 is set up to respond to a curve where
0 is set up to not actually be 0.

The only way to change that is manually changing the corresponding .sfz file so that the 0 point is actually 0.

DavidinTexas
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:11 pm

Re: Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

Postby DavidinTexas » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:31 pm

This is great news!

I'm just now trying to learn about the .sfz programming and have done no programming prior to this.
I've opened some of the Garritan .sfz files and looked through them.
One thing i've noticed is that the LoVel=1.


<global>
pan_law=no_law
lovel=1 hivel=127
lokey=0 hikey=127
sustain_sw=$sustain_sw
group=0

Should it be 0?

Wondering if that might be the issue, i've changed it to zero and then saved the text file as .sfz just to see if that made a difference.
Only problem is that i can't figure out how to open the file in The ARIA Player.
The file doesn't show up in the Garritan instrument list (saved the edited file to the same folder as the original file)
and when i try to import it all the keys are grayed out with, evidently, no samples assigned.

I will be grateful for any suggestions regarding how to change the .sfz file to resolve the volume issue.

Thank you so much for your help.

DavidinGarland

DavidinTexas
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:11 pm

Re: Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

Postby DavidinTexas » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:39 pm

Hi Seb,
I've been trying to figure out how to change the programming so that the volume goes to zero.
Please tell me, is that something that i need to ask Garritan about or is it something that you can help me with.
I'm thinking that it is just one setting that needs to be changed (maybe??) and am wondering if you would tell me what that is.
I've been looking at the .sfz files from Garritan and trying to find info online but it is proving to be a bit daunting.
The ARIA Engine is very nice and i like using it very much, if i can just solve this issue then all will be well.
Thank you for any help you might offer.
David

DavidinTexas
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:11 pm

Re: Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

Postby DavidinTexas » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:40 pm

My experience with Garritan tech support is proving to be less than adequate.

SysExJohn
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Location: Betelgeuse, shoulder of Orion.
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Re: Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

Postby SysExJohn » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:18 am

David,

I presume you've seen my 2nd reply in the Garritan forum.

I'm still awaiting a reply to a bug report I sent in on the 7th of December.
I assume we're waiting to clear the Xmas holiday backlog.

As you're request is a question of modification of the all of the libraries which work well I assume it won't be rapid.

My further thoughts to what I wrote there are as follows.

When I play my flute or oboe there is a minimum blowing pressure below which the instrument makes no musical note.
I just get air noise.
This could be said to be the 'pppp' point of its dynamic range.
There is similarly a maximum loudness when I blow as hard as the instrument will take, 'ffff'.

Question. Should I be able, using GPO4 or any other of the libraries, to make the instrument play more softly than the pppp limit?
This is what cc#1 or cc#2 or cc#11 controls, expression. The dynamic range between softest and loudest.
Upon reflection I believe that the Garritan libraries are correctly programmed.

If we require no sound then judicious insertion of cc#7=0 will produce the necessary effect.

Just some further thoughts.
Kind regards,
John.
Garritan GPO4, IO, JaBB3, CoMB2, World, Harps, GCPO, GPO5.

seb@plogue
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Re: Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

Postby seb@plogue » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:17 am

In order to do what you want, you will need to modify each and every instrument (.sfz file) using the mod wheel for
every Garritan product you have.

Doing so will change your installation which could end up creating support issues that the Garritan support
staff will be unaware of (or unable to reproduce given they won't modify their installation and also
although we do are the ARIA engine authors, we do not handle the support for Garritan).

Yes, the use of sfz does let any power user to easily make changes to the programming but
we cannot afford to personally help everyone with all the details it entails (making backups
before changes, being able to restore from that if anything goes wrong, file permissions, etc...)

That being said,
look for:
amplitude_curvecc1=7
and either add // in front of it if there's nothing AFTER so it becomes:
//amplitude_curvecc1=7
or remove it from the file.
(it's possible that it will not always be curve7)

The bank xml files will tell you which instrument is which sfz file if needed.

DavidinTexas
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:11 pm

Re: Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

Postby DavidinTexas » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:43 am

Thank you so much for your help Seb!
I want to try this (carefully).
The question that now comes to mind and which will probably remain unanswered is why Garritan would choose to not have their instruments
go to zero volume. That is the natural way for all the instruments. I'm going to ask them.

SysExJohn
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:04 am
Location: Betelgeuse, shoulder of Orion.
Contact:

Re: Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

Postby SysExJohn » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:48 am

Hi David,
See my response to yours in the Garritan forum, maybe then you'll understand why they've programmed it this way.
Kind regards,
John.
Garritan GPO4, IO, JaBB3, CoMB2, World, Harps, GCPO, GPO5.

DavidinTexas
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:11 pm

Re: Instrument still sounds from keyboard when ModWhl = 0%

Postby DavidinTexas » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Want to amend my earlier comment regarding Garritan Tech Support.
I understand that they have recently moved their offices which could account for the delays in responding to my emails.
The programming of the minimum volume levels for the instruments now makes sense to me.
Also, i was able to call their tech support number and after a very short wait, spoke with someone (wish i could remember his name)
who was very patient and knowledgeable and who answered my questions in detail.
Well done Garritan!


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