OSC and two Bidules

General Discussion about Plogue Bidule

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reezekeys
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OSC and two Bidules

Postby reezekeys » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:37 am

I run two instances of Bidule (Mac app, not plugin). I need OSC on one of them, not both. My first Bidule loads, sets up a bunch of virtual midi ports and enables the OSC server & client. Then I load my second Bidule - the one that does not need OSC. I just noticed that OSC was enabled on both so I turned off the server & client on the second Bidule layout and re-saved. Obviously the OSC states are not layout or instance specific because when I reloaded my setup both Bidules had OSC clients & servers disabled. It looks like I can have OSC either enabled or disabled, and that state will be the same on both Bidule instances.

In the interest of not making this post super long (as mine often get!) I’ll just say that I’m troubleshooting a bug with my MOTU MicroBook IIc audio interface, and I would like to see if disabling OSC completely on the Bidule instance I don’t need it on might help. (I use OSC to work MOTU’s CueMix mixer from my midi controller). I know I can assign my second Bidule to use a separate server port so maybe I’ll try that. I actually don’t need either Bidule to be a server, just a client - but having the server disabled caused the log to flood with these messages: kernel[0]: Limiting icmp unreach response from 324 to 250 packets per second. As soon as I enabled the server and set it to a random port these messages stopped.

So my question is, are there any possible conflicts that can arise from having two instances of the Bidule app using the same OSC Client port? I know it's a shot in the dark, but this bug is nasty! Random, very infrequent, and not reproducible - and it's a showstopper! My MicroBook loses the connection with the computer and I have to reboot. It happened to me on a show a few weeks ago. The only reason I'm thinking OSC might be involved is that I'm using it in a non-supported way with MOTU's software - they intend for you to use TouchOSC on a phone or tablet, not localhost on the same machine! Thanks for any assistance.

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Re: OSC and two Bidules

Postby seb@plogue » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:59 am

kernel[0]: Limiting icmp unreach response from 324 to 250 packets per second


IIRC, you would get this from attempting to send OSC messages to something that is not there/not listening.

So my question is, are there any possible conflicts that can arise from having two instances of the Bidule app using the same OSC Client port?


You mean two instances sending messages to the same client set to the same port or two instances attempting to listen to the same port?
(IIRC the second instance will not be able to use the same port but I might be mixing that with running into the same process)

reezekeys
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Re: OSC and two Bidules

Postby reezekeys » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:43 pm

seb@plogue wrote:
So my question is, are there any possible conflicts that can arise from having two instances of the Bidule app using the same OSC Client port?


You mean two instances sending messages to the same client set to the same port or two instances attempting to listen to the same port?
(IIRC the second instance will not be able to use the same port but I might be mixing that with running into the same process)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the basics of OSC or just didn't explain things adequately (probably both!). Right now I just need unidirectional OSC communication from Bidule to CueMix. So Bidule is the client and CueMix is the server, correct? As I said, I enabled the server in Bidule only to stop those log messages. Neither Bidule instance is having anything controlled by OSC. In addition, the second Bidule has nothing in it that's set to "Send to OSC Servers" - so it's not receiving or sending OSC at all. I was only wondering if having OSC enabled at all in this second Bidule might cause any kind of conflict. I'm grasping at straws, trying to squash this horrible bug that's making me crazy! Thanks Seb.

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Re: OSC and two Bidules

Postby seb@plogue » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:17 pm

As I said, I enabled the server in Bidule only to stop those log messages.


If that's the case, that would mean that there's something in your layout that is sending OSC messages to Bidule itself.
Unless it's somehow wrecking havoc with CueMix?

So Bidule is the client and CueMix is the server, correct?


yes.

reezekeys
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Re: OSC and two Bidules

Postby reezekeys » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:14 pm

seb@plogue wrote:
As I said, I enabled the server in Bidule only to stop those log messages.


If that's the case, that would mean that there's something in your layout that is sending OSC messages to Bidule itself.
Unless it's somehow wrecking havoc with CueMix?

Something in my layout, or could it be the CueMix software sending OSC messages back to Bidule? That's what I'm assuming now. That would explain why enabling the OSC Server in Bidule stopped those log messages, no? Is there a tool or method that might tell me what's sending to Bidule?

MOTU put OSC into its CueMix software for one purpose only: to use TouchOSC on a phone or tablet to control CueMix's mixer. I loaded the layout into Hexler's editor to get the addresses of the controls I needed, then worked up the groups and variables in Bidule to let me control CueMix from Bidule instead. I've always wondered if there's something I missed. MOTU is of course no help since I'm stepping outside their supported usage. You helped me get this going about a year & a half ago. It works, except for those few times when everything shits the bed!

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Re: OSC and two Bidules

Postby seb@plogue » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:29 pm

Is there a tool or method that might tell me what's sending to Bidule?


OSC Monitor under the Tools menu.

reezekeys
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Re: OSC and two Bidules

Postby reezekeys » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:29 pm

Yes, OSC monitor in Tools... :oops:

When I move the controls on my Roland midi controller – the ones linked to variables in Bidule that send to OSC – their addresses & values are displayed in the Outgoing messages section. I also see a stream of data in the Non-processed messages section (unrelated to any action I do), which I'm guessing is from the metering on the MicroBook. Do you think that's what was responsible for the "Limiting imcp response" log messages when I didn't have Bidule’s server enabled?

Moving any of the on-screen controls for the CueMix mixer does not result in any other OSC data being displayed in the Non-processed section. That leads me to think that MOTU has set the MicroBook to only transmit metering data back to TouchOSC. I have not actually used the MicroBook with TouchOSC so I don't know this for a fact.

Here are pics showing how I've set things up. This seems to be working OK – now! The only thing strange is that if I don't have CueMix as the top-most application, there's a very noticeable lag before the CueMix controls "catch up" to where I move the linked controls on my midi controller; with CueMix on top, they follow each other just fine.

Back to my original question – I'm guessing that it's impossible to "turn off" OSC completely in one of my two Bidule instances. If there's a way, I was just wanting to try it as a shot in the dark for squashing my buggy. Thanks for looking at all this!

Image

Image

Image

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Re: OSC and two Bidules

Postby seb@plogue » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:39 am

I also see a stream of data in the Non-processed messages section (unrelated to any action I do), which I'm guessing is from the metering on the MicroBook. Do you think that's what was responsible for the "Limiting imcp response" log messages when I didn't have Bidule’s server enabled?


Yes, it looks like it.

Back to my original question – I'm guessing that it's impossible to "turn off" OSC completely in one of my two Bidule instances. If there's a way, I was just wanting to try it as a shot in the dark for squashing my buggy. Thanks for looking at all this!


I'd need to add code so that it's possible to override by instance through the plist trick.

reezekeys
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Re: OSC and two Bidules

Postby reezekeys » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:56 pm

I've contacted MOTU and they seem willing to exchange my MicroBook IIc for a new one, given the amount of time I've spent unsuccessfully troubleshooting this.

It seems unlikely that having OSC enabled on a Bidule instance that's not sending or receiving OSC would crash the MOTU audio driver. If you do get around to adding the plist option to do that, I would probably welcome it as something to try if getting a new MicroBook does not cure my issue. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again Seb.


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